Lunch for the final

Hi friends!
I just want to remind everybody that there will be lunch provided during the final tomorrow.
We are doing sandwiches from Subway with chips and drinks, and of course snacks!
Please arrive hungry because we always have plenty to eat.

=)

I found this cool article about Moll and I thought it made some good points in favor of Moll. I really liked it because I felt it was very easy to criticize Moll in almost every stage of this novel.

"George Eliot wrote, "It is never too late to be who you might have been." As I read those words, I was hard pressed to find another who fit them as well as Moll Flanders. Despite circumstance and luck and odds set against her at every turn, this woman refused to bow to the conventional wisdom that normally rules the downtrodden and the dispossessed. And it is in that tenacity of spirit I find Eliot's words ringing true. Moll Flanders born into a world of pad-locked doors and dark menacing corners was destined for greatness simply because she lived it.
The story begins as a tale told to an orphan recovered and claimed by Hibble, a man of mystery, dark and wise. The orphan, Flora, has been retrieved by Hibble and is on a journey to America to meet a fate she does not understand. Along the way, Hibble has been instructed to read to her the diary of her mother, Moll Flanders. It is an introduction to a woman who’s soul does not come across well on the written page, but Hibble struggles along, trying to entice the young girl with the memory of an extraordinary friend and confidante. Threats and lectures begin a journey that soon intrigues the young woman on its own merit. Her mother, it would seem, was more than she ever dreamed.
And it is in those pages that we find a hero of our own. Moll Flanders, born to a convicted thief, was orphaned the day she was born as the state carried out the sentence of death put upon her mother. Moll landed at the foot of the Church, learning how to read, to pray and to fend off hypocrisy and the groping hand of the priest in the bargain. Leaving the Church in an unorthodox manner, Moll bounced from home to home, finding herself too much for some and too little to ward off others. Along the way, she learned to laugh and to limp because of the kindness and cruelty that abound in our worlds. It was in the kindness that Moll found herself bound in love to an unlikely artist and it was in that union Flora was conceived.
The tale of Flora's lost mother and the reclaimed image of her mother are both engrossing and tragic, light-hearted and frustrating to watch. People of that era (and of our own) are limited only by an imagination in their ability to be cruel and generous, torturous or kind. Moll seemed to experience them all. This is one of those stories that found you angry and hopeful in the same breath as you watched Moll bounce and land time and again with and without her footing beneath her."

What Official time is our final?

Hey Everyone,

I keep hearing conflicting times for when we are to meet in the library for the final on tuesday. Does anyone know what time?

Thanks,

Julia

We do what we have to, to protect ourselves

Ok so I know we already discussed the end of Moll Flanders and discussed this topic very thoroughly. However I just wanted to say that I was thinking about Moll Flanders last night and thinking about the situations in which we are willing to excuse things we would normally find wrong. So of course I came up with a connection with another book. I realize I do this like everyday but i enjoy it when books make me think of others. So in this case I though of The Road by Cormac McCarthy. The man is willing to murder, to kill without hesitation in order to protect his little boy. We do not question that. Of course protecting his son takes priority, but do we give Moll the same lenience? Now Moll isnt the type to be bullied but the way her society is set up, where a woman is only worth something if she gets married, what else is she supposed to do? I have no doubt that her decision to prostitute herself, then turn to stealing, is completely hers. She is the boss of her own story. However with the circumstances around her she does what she has to do to protect herself. Do we not all do that to a certain extent? I have made many decisions in my life that have been for me, in order to protect myself, and others can do not matter. Now Moll might take this to an extreme but I see her point.

Moll the "pick-pocketer"

In comparison with the original Moll Flanders, the Moll that was lady-like and proper, always keeping with the customs and norms of what the times permitted, and the Moll that fell into sin, stealing anything that is not bolted down, I would say the latter is much more interesting, colorful, and enjoyable to follow. Keep in mind, I do not condone Moll's deeds, but I feel like she, toward the end, found herself. Enjoyed herself. She was no longer just manipulating men and women to gain favor or more wealth, but she was hard at a craft, a skill.

I was enthralled with her new character, or birth of a new person, because there was something to her drive to gain more possessions, and not money; yes, she did have a lot of money, but she ceased to list the total amount of her worth every few pages; instead, she went from one steal to another, and I could feel her satisfaction (Defoe's) in her tasks. She may have become a thief, but at least she was a talented one--a capable one.

her only grown son

I think that Moll reacted differently to her son in Virginia because technically he is her only son that she has seen grown (as a man). And like we talked in class there is more of an attachment to children that grow out of the infant stage as they are likely to survive after their young age. Also I think he represents a living walking part of Moll's wicked past. But that was not so bad (since she didn't know the dad was her brother) and that she isn't so sad about having a remembrance of the past like him. So since she knows of no other descendant of hers, her son is the only living one she knows for sure made it to adult hood so I believe she is extremely happy to have him in her life. That's the main difference I saw between all her other children and this one that she knew for sure made it to adult hood. Which I thought was quite beautiful for a nice ending for the book.

-Nessa

Moll Flanders!!!

Moll Flanders can be responsible for her crimes to a certain extent. For example, she was a product of her environment and they way society imposed their beliefs on what the ideal way someone should act. Although, it shouldn't be solely society's fault for the things that happened to Moll. She was born into an unfortunate fate, but while she was dealing with feelings of loneliness and want from the people she thought she admired in society, made her think otherwise, and this is how we see Moll transforming into her true self. It seemed throughout the novel, no matter the struggles she went through, she had a fighting spirit about her that i admired most. In some ways, Moll's story reminded me of my own story. I went through a serious of emotions like Moll in my life, the feeling of worthlessness, loneliness, and in a way giving into people or situations that will give you some sort of acceptance from being isolated for so long. As for More and the ideas in portrayed in Utopia, society did create a self in Moll that lived the life of a sinner. It's like creating a monster and feeding them meat, but beating it at the same time. Society created this self in Moll and for her complying with it was her worst mistake, for when she did, no one was there for her. Until, she made changes in the decisions she made throughout the book and didnt give into the self created by society, and started making her own choices. Overall, i really enjoyed this book. It was definitely not something i was expecting after the other books we have read in class. This story is definitely memorable for me, and also helped me realize that no matter what happens to you in the past, you are just as well deserving of a beautiful future.

Love you Moll!

Not to be mistaken

I would just like to add to my last post that I still love Moll.
LOVE. . . . . . . LOVE. . . . . . . LOVE

She is the underdog in a sense and I have to appreciate that in the end, she wins.

Moll's Crimes

I have to say that Moll's initial crimes are very much due to her circumstances and not her choices. She was perfectly prepared to be a wife to the man she loved at the outset of her tale. Several of her other marriages also lead me to believe that she was intent on making the most of her situation and staying with her husband(s) until the end. Wen circumstances changed, it was necessary for her to change with them. I'm sure she didn't expect to marry her own brother or to end up with a man of no fortune so she had to improvise.

Though I believe that her early life distinctly resembles what More refers to in Utopia as making criminals and then punishing them, her later life is very much a product of her own decision. I specifically see this change in her after the first time she steals and then becomes reacquainted with her 'governess.' I really feel like this is a vital time for her in which she could have made the right/better decision but she finally gives in to all that is dormant inside of her. She eventually comes to love it and has zero qualms about stealing and cheating people. The scene after the fire is particularly telling in that she feels extreme remorse and grieves for her decisions yet continues in her 'sins' and doesn't look back.

I would say that More is absolutely correct in the sense that Moll was a victim of her circumstances for most of her life. However, when the turning point came in which she had the opportunity to make a better decision, she didn't because of what she refers to as 'avarice.' She loved the money and the lifestyle more than she hated the sin.

This is my second post for these prompts, but something else struck me as significant, and knowing my track record, I won't say it in class. :D
When Moll is in prison and after she receives the news that she will be sentenced to death, she pleads with one of the Keepers who in return says this, "send for a Minister, and talk with him, for indeed Mrs. Flanders, unless you have very good Friends, you are no Woman for this World."
I think this attests to the fact that society is very much responsible for Moll's character and situation. If you don't have money or "very good friends," you aren't considered a person meant for the world. That is a very sad thought. I think that in the beginning, Moll understood this. She was born into poverty and though she started out with "friends." They turned out to be either instruments for her to use in her schemes, or not very good friends at all. If I was in her position, being born with no prospects and feeling that I didn't even belong in society, I would feel much less inclined to follow the rules and standards that society had deemed "good."

The Moll Is In A Hole

Moll as a young girl is very innocent. She has nothing but good intentions in becoming a gentlewoman. She doesn't have knowledge of what she is capable of. As she first receives gifts and nice clothing, she isn't aware that she's taking advantage of the society she lives in. In the end of the book, Moll is fully aware of her manipulation and sinful acts, and uses it to her advantage. It seems like almost an addiction. In the beginning she just reminds me of child who cries and realizes she can get her way, but doesn't understand to what extent she can take advantage. In the end of the book Moll reminds me of someone who has done wrong, realizes they have sinned but then doesn't find what they need through repentance or religion. Throughout her life, when Moll needs or wants something, she gets it through the way she knows how. This is where she seems to get her feeling of power and happiness. When she is feeling guilty for all she has done, she does what she feels she needs to; she repents. I think the reason why she doesn't feel any peace is because she is repenting in selfishness, thinking she will see the same results of happiness, and empowerment she has her whole life. In the end she has gotten into this sinning and self gratifying way of life so deep that it's a part of her no matter what she does.

A New Life

I think blame can always be distributed evenly to a multitude of factors: society, ignorance, men, women, chance, and fate. I think Defoe covers all these aspects of blame, because he is a journalist and wants others to see all sides of the situation. I think his commentary throughout the book is the way he responds to the readers own thoughts and judgements on the character he has created,"Leave it as a caution to the readers of this story"(113). His attitude I felt was like, Yes, this is how it should be, but this is how it REALLY is.

He plays with circumstances such as when he writes about how to be married in a safer situation, "She is always marry'd too soon who gets a husband, and she is never marry'd too late, who gets a good one"(72). This sounds like good advice from a grandmother type, but then Defoe brings out the harsh reality with Moll,"But I come to my own case, in which there was at this time no Nicety. The circumstance I was in, made the offer of a good husband, the most necessary thing in the world to me"(73). Then there is the storms, and the ill chance that made her marry her brother, those are certainly things that Moll could not have foreseen, even if she tried to prepare for a "wet day"

Society plays a huge part in what makes Moll the way she is. There was stern control when it came to the prospects of women, she makes this clear when she wants to leave her brother and can't, "It was quite out of my power to stir without his consent, as any one that knows the constitution of the country I was in, knows well"(88).

I think her ending up at Newgate as her mother did, gives a feeling that things come full circle. That Moll was somehow fated for the life she lived,"My own fate pushing me on"(99). I felt the Utopian view that society makes and then punishes the criminal, but also that if you're born of a criminal you will become a criminal. It reminded me of our day and the statics we hear, such as; if you're raised in a broken home there is such and such likely hood that you will end up with your own broken home and blah,blah,blah. Even though Newgate seems to take the symbol that life is just one terrible cycle, I think this is the place that gives Moll the greatest hope for her future. If her mother was able to withstand Newgate and then travel and make a new life for herself so can she. I think this hope is reignited when she sees her son, I don't think its because he was her favorite or anything, I think he was a vision of hope for her, that her own children could escape the cycle of turmoil and despair.

I really have enjoyed this book, it has taught me a lot. I think one of my favorite things about Daniel and his classes has been our blogs. I love reading every one's opinion and the multitude of ways we can look at things. I wanted to thank everyone for helping me find new and exciting ways to view life and all our experiences. Cheers, Liz

Prison

When Moll goes into Newgate here own words are best to describe the scene.” 'tis impossible to describe the terror of my mind, when I was first brought in, and when I look'd round upon all the horrors of that dismal Place: I look'd on myself as lost” Defoe connects Molls earth punishment to an eternal punishment by comparing the prison to hell. As it appears the walls are closing in on her she is thrown into a deep sincere repents and Defoe illustrates this as if it is sincere. She however doesn’t let her bad situation keep her down for too long and I soon realized that the prison does suck but its obviously not “eternal damnation” but a mere mortal housing for sinners. Its interesting how Defoe continues to beat this horse of the initial guilt that comes when Moll does something sinful or is thrown in to prison. The first time she stole she felt horrible and the obviously when she went to prison she compared it to Hell. Time however changes everything and Moll cannot be kept down. She became an excellent thief after her first offense and in prison a “truly repentant soul”. Just like most other things in her life she always has an out and is able to buy her way to freedom, and for me diminishing her repentance because it’s continuously a non-religious way to freedom.

I think a lot of what More said in Utopia applies with Moll. Considering the circumstances to which she was born, I don't find it hard to believe her actions throughout the novel. The fact alone that she was finally happily married with two children only to find out that her husband was her actual brother is horrifying and, I think, would lead anyone to act similarly to Moll. On top of that one incident however, she was continually in some sort of trouble for which she had to find some way to escape. The only way to do this for her always involved committing some sort of crime, whether it was deceiving others into marrying her, stealing, or being a whore. What else could she have done? She did what she could with what she had. Although I believe part of her nature is still deceitful, I think the greater portion of it is due to the conditions under which she was born into and grew up with.

Concerning her children, I was surprised at the ease with which she disregarded her children and left them behind. It seemed like she didn't even care about any of them. I think this is due, again, to her surrounding circumstances. It would be painful and difficult to care for children when your husband is gone and when you figure out your other husband is your brother. I think, for Moll, leaving her kids behind was a sort of coping strategy or defense mechanism. If she didn't have to look after her kids and have those constant reminders of failed marriages, then maybe she could start new again...and again and again and again...until, finally, she reunites with her husband in prison and becomes truly repentant. I think her repentance was sincere and she was finally able (or perhaps forced) to come to terms with her past. She had a different attitude towards her son at the end because she was finally able to realize that, although her past was painful and full of chaos, each past moment eventually brought her to her new state of life.

Trying to Understand Moll

One of the things that I noticed most about Moll as the story progressed is mentioned in prompt four when Moll sees her son in Virginia; the fact that Moll seems to become more attached as she grows older. As Daniel mentioned, there is a distinct difference between the way Moll responds to her son in Virginia and the way she writes about her first children that she gave away and the next child who in a single sentence we are told was born and died. However, this is not a complete jump from A to Z. As the story progressed you could see Moll begin to form these attachments with her children and with others.

She truly does struggle with the idea to put her child with the Lancashire husband up for adoption. She ultimately does it because she cannot have the child and still snag her next man, but she does seem to legitimately suffer over the decision and wishes she could keep the child. This is a marked difference from the way she writes about leaving the first two children with her in-laws.

Likewise, one can also see this sense of attachment seem to grow with each progressive husband. She is sorry she has to leave her husband/brother. She seems to feel real remorse for the fact that she believes she ruined her Lancashire husband. Furthermore, she clearly has a real emotional bond with her governess and other people she meets later in life.

Moll is kind of a tricky character. First of all, she always has a motive and rarely lets her emotions get in front of her end goal. Furthermore, only a fool would not notice how much she justifies her actions and manipulates the people in her life and not realize she is just as capable of the same manipulation in writing to us, her reader. Even in the end, after she has repented, much of the interaction with her son deals with her simply trying to get her property which, despite still feeling real emotions, she still manipulates and lies her way through the process. In other words, I think it is kind of next to impossible to really understand Moll and her actions. She can lie to herself as easily as she lies to others.

That being said, it is clear that as the story progresses she does allow herself to form more emotional attachments than the younger Moll Flanders. As Moll ages she learns more and more ways to benefit herself. In the end, while I don’t mean to paint the bleakest picture of Moll, I think that to an extent her emotional attachments are an extension of this fact. She has learned that she needs other people in her life, and so, she has allowed herself to be more open to these emotional attachments.

Although Moll's reaction to her son was heartwarming, and it was nice to see her change in her attitude towards her children, I couldn't help but wonder if her attitude had something to do with the fact that her son had a lot of money. It almost seems that people don't really exist as people to Moll unless they have money, consider how much value she places on her friendship with the Captain of the ship. I think that Moll sincerely wanted to repent after her experience in prison, but characteristics that have been a lifetime in the making don't go away in a flash.

I found it hard to believe that Moll was truly repentant of her past deeds. She herself, when she is first in prison says, "Then I repented heartily of all my Life past, but that Repentance yielded me no satisfaction, no Peace, no not in the least, because, as I said to myself, it was repenting after the Power of farther Sinning was taken away." And later in that paragraph, "I mourned that I was to be punished for it."
I know that later she claims full repentance after seeing the minister, but I still feel it to be a little shallow. She herself says it may seem this way to the reader, but insists that she is a penitent. I can't help but think that if she were to suddenly find herself in a situation where she would have to repeat a past "evil," she'd jump at the opportunity.
But, luckily for her, she never finds herself in that position, which, I was very glad about. Because though her actions and deeds were terrible, you can't help but like her.

I think that many of Moll's actions throughout the story can be attributed to society, although not all. Society has an effect on us all in some way or another, whether we choose to embrace those standards believed to be proper or blatantly disregard them. We are all molded at a young age by our environments and I believe that Moll's experience with the elder brother was something that stayed with her. That is why she chose to marry out of necessity, which I think is one of Defoe's points, since we know what he thought of marriage.

I also wanted to comment that the fact that Defoe did so much research showed. This is not only because of the descriptions of Newgate, Virginia, the boat and so on, but because he even made Moll's character research. The first instance I noticed this was when she was at the mall and inquired of the footman who the well-dressed ladies were. She was able to then use that information to deceive the girls into trusting her.

Maybe this is the hopeless romantic deep inside me, but I loved that Moll ended up with her Lancanshire husband in the end! After she saw him at Dunstable, I kept expecting to see him appear in the story somehow. Defoe was able to keep me in suspense with my desire to know what happened to this character after the robbery. Once Moll landed in jail, I expected him to appear again and I was very pleased when he did.

This is my first about Moll Flanders, but I absolutely loved the whole book. The only thing that made it hard for me to get through it was the way it was structured. I had to pay a little closer attention to figure out who was saying what in conversations. I loved Moll to death, but . . . ;) the one thing I didn't like about her was her deceitful nature. This is in fact because I have been shaped by one of my past relationships to hate lies and am myself almost honest to a fault.

Moll Flanders - Final Set of Prompts

1. To what extent is Moll responsible for her crimes? How much of what she has done can be related to More's ideas in Utopia, namely that society makes criminals and then punishes them? How much blame do we have to put on Moll herself? In other words, how much of her behavior is a product of her environment, how much of it her own nature?

2. Last week we discussed a seeming disconnect between the moralizing commentary in the novel and the relish with which Defoe seems to portray the character of Moll Flanders. Do you see more of that in the last 1/3 of the novel? Are there places where Defoe puts a "bad" or a "naughty" tag on something that he portrays in an exciting or sympathetic manner?

3. What do you make of Moll's experience in prison? What do you make of her penitence and reformation? What stands out to you in the prison section as being important to the novel as a whole?

4. When Moll sees her son in Virginia, she is overtaken with emotion and describes the moment in very sentimental terms. This seems inconsistent with the very unsentimental way she has separated herself--both emotionally and physically--from children throughout the novel. Why do you think she reacts differently this time?

5. When you compare Moll on page 1 to Moll at the end of the novel, what stands out to you as being the most distinct difference? What is the single biggest change in her character?

As Moll continues on, experiencing one misfortune after the other, she becomes a stronger person and much less naive than we find in the beginning of the story. Something that was so dear to her in the beginning, falling deeply in love with a man, slowly starts to erode as she becomes more aware of her circumstances and how they correspond with surviving in society. The gentleman she meets in Bath represents financial stability she quickly recognizes, and without loving him like she passionately did with the older brother in the beginning, she allows the affair to go forth. We also see her gaining wisdom when even in an ideal situation with this gentleman, she continues to save her money in the case of a sudden downfall, as she has become very familiar with over the years.

We also see however, more of an emotionally troubled and moralistic Moll. There are two instances where she has a bit of a breakdown, overcome with thoughts of guilt and also despair at the the thought of being dealt the unfortunate cards of a life of poverty. The first is around the time of accepting the proposal of the banker knowing his sincerity and at the same time knowing her own devious intentions. She calls herself an "abominable Creature" for having lived the life she has and knowingly put it upon this kind man. Another moral relapse occurs while she is married to him and incredibly happy. She looks back on her "past follies" and views them "with abhorrence." We see the peak of her developed self-awareness that even as she may now be tormented by a sinful lifestyle, she has no choice but to continue on this kind of path without the financial securities of others such as her previous husband from Bath. We see an intelligent and conscientious character fully recognize her faults but equally recognize why they must be so.

Moll

Moll takes the opportunity not to warn against the acts that she is committing, but warns that you should always avoid becoming the victim. She learns from her own advice also throughout the novel, not that she quits the behavior that is causing the apparent trouble but she becomes better at managing it. When she was a robber she would criticize herself a little saying she needs to be a better thief but also how her victims might have avoided being robbed and therefore could have avoided becoming the victim. In the beginning when she is paid for love from the elder brother she doesn’t warn the reader against sexually immoral behavior but warns that women should not fall victim to the good looking man who is showing a little attention. In the case of the Gentleman she shows that this isn’t her first attempt at being a mistress and it takes her a little longer to agree. She only becomes his mistress when she is given the financial security that a wife would receive. Moll then shows all that she has learned up to this point with the banker and she only entertains the thought a little of becoming his wife. He promises to divorce his wife and she knows now not to seem excited or to reveal her eagerness. She tells him she will not till the divorce is final. Its fun to watch her progression as the novel evolves.

Moll Flanders Part II

So it's nearly 1 A.M. I'm grading papers, and I realize I haven't posted prompts. Let's keep the topic open for tomorrow. I am interested in if, and how, your opinions of Moll, or Defoe for that matter, are changing as you read. But don't feel obligated to write about that. I'll be interested in whatever you have to say. See you tomorrow, er, later today, and sorry for the late post.

Moll Flanders

By today's standards Moll Flanders fits the criteria for feminist novelt. It ranks up there with the likes of Tess of the D'urbervilles and Jane Eyre for strong, female leading characters, yet the term that Virginia Woolf uses would not have been applied to the novel in 1722.

I do believe that the novel was meant to do exactly what Defoe claims but whether or not he intended, it went much further. Defoe seems hell-bent on convincing the reader that the sotry is a lesson in morality. He writes that he has "shortn'd" and even completely left out certain parts to "give no leud Ideas, no immodest Turns" (4). Language like this begets the question then, if Defoe meant his work only to serve as an example of the dangers of a "Woman debauch'd from her Youth" (3) why then does he portray Moll as such a strond, independent woman?
Another interesting thing to note is that Defoe draws attention to the plight of women. He writes about how if women would only hold themselves with confidence and view themselves as equals, they could become so. We see this when Moll advises her friend that she has every right to inquire into a suiter's circumstances. Women should not feel they need to blindly accept any offer of marriage that comes along. They only contribute to their problem when they allow themselves to only fear becoming an old maid. At least these are the points that Defoe lays out throught his character.

Perhaps Defoe is utilizing the same artiface as Shakespeare by putting revolutionary ides of gender quality into a character that he has gone to great lengths to paint as both trustworthy and immoral.

Timeless

Virginia Woolf and I have not always been on the best of terms. A couple semesters ago our class read "Mrs. Dalloway" .The first part of the novel gave me the need to eat a box of Ding Dongs and a carton of Mint Madness. Don't get me wrong, I think Woolf is one of the most wise and articulate writers out there, it was just that she gave me too much to think about. Subjects that in my view were too complicated, by the end of the novel I had done a lot of repenting and knew the Woolf was ahead of her time. I don't think they could have chosen a better person to write the preface to Moll Flanders, besides Defoe himself. Woolf is able to elaborate on the difficulties and contradictions that women have to face, because like Moll Flanders, Woolf walked the road of cause and effect many times . I think Defoe would have encouraged Woolf and her views of his writings, just as I believe he would be pleased with our class discussions about Flanders.

A novel becomes a timeless classic, because it can fit any time era. For Defoe's era there was a need to address morality. For Woolf's era a need to address feminism, and for our era maybe we need to address the reasons we feel the craving to cast judgements upon others. The great thing about the novel of Moll Flanders is its ability to adapt to the given situation, much like its heroine.

Disguising the Truth

It is very interesting to read both Virginia Woolf’s introduction and the actual novel and discover a lot of inherent contradictions in the characterization of Moll Flanders. As mentioned in the prompts, Virginia Woolf sees the character and story as an early feminist text about an unfortunate woman who must overcome obstacles of circumstance to achieve what she wants. However, in his preface Defoe clearly tries to couch his story as a morality/cautionary tale. Virginia Woolf herself comments on this seeming contradiction, “He takes pains to insist that he has not used his invention at all but has depended upon facts, and that his purpose has been the highly moral desire to convert the vicious or to warn the innocent”. I think the part of that sentence that stand out the most to me is that Virginia points out that he does in fact “take pains” to present the story as merely moral. It makes me wonder if his “pains” had more of a hidden purpose.

I would assume that when Moll Flanders was written there probably did not exist much of a feminist movement. Even if Defoe had wanted to describe his book as feminist would he have been able to do it? Would the book have been successful? I cannot help but think that Defoe knew the poor would not be reading his book at that time. Therefore, perhaps Defoe is purposefully lulling his perceived audience (the upper class) into thinking that they are reading a morality story that shows the dangers of the lower class trying to rise up and only falling into vice. One can almost imagine the aristocrat patting himself on the back while reading the book about vice and greed amongst the lower class. However, as has been noted in other posts and by Virginia Woolf, there really is no way you can read the book and not find admiration for Moll Flanders. She has drive, she has wits, and she is clever and exceedingly entertaining. Despite her struggles, it is fun to read about her using her particular talents to overcome them and you cannot help but root for her.

In essence, whether he realized it or not, I think that Defoe was in many ways disguising his novel as a mere morality story in an attempt to lull the reader into actually liking the character and, even if begrudgingly, admiring and appreciating her abilities in the circumstance. Perhaps astute readers of the time, in some way or other, changed the way they felt about and viewed the lower class as a result. I guess that in a lot of ways I see what Defoe is doing as very similar to Shakespeare introducing radical ideas about class distinction through the character Edmund.

Mrs. Moll

Gutsy. If Moll is anything I would describe her as being gutsy. Regardless of what circumstances she is forced to face she keeps moving forward and never lets life get the better of her.

I think it took guts for her to move forward after having her heart ripped out and getting a huge taste of reality. It must have nearly killed her to marry a man that she didn't love after having a taste of what for her was true love, though I don't think he felt that way for her. She was used and manipulated by a family that knew much of the world and of society. In turn she learned to use others around her to similar advantage.

I don't think she should be viewed negatively for adjusting to her circumstances. Though it isn't very honorable for her to use others for personal gain simply because she was used it also isn't a matter of honor but of survival. In all things she tried to do right by those she was bound to and she holds true to her own honor system.

I know we aren't very far into our reading yet and Moll's character may yet surprise me but I definitely admire her for surviving and am anxious to continue reading.

For me, the novel was a perfect counterpart to "Utopia." It showed why someone would want to have a Utopian society, and how the government of Moll's time in fact made theves and then punished them. Under these circumstances I believe it is possible for the novel to take a strong feminist reading as well as one on morality. The novel demonstrates that even the lowest people in a society have choices, but they usually have to choose the lesser of two evils. I like how the novel helps to break down the us verses them mentality that it is so easy to have when making judgments about other people. The novel shows that no person is a "bad person" without reason.

To Describe Moll...

Persistent. The woman is persistent. She keeps at things despite the uneven lot she has been given in life. Born from a woman in prison. Traveled with gypsies, and finally removed from one place that may have been considered home. Even when she is taken in by a well-to-do family, she is still given the short-end of the stick; the eldest brother taking advantage of her. All things aside, she doesn't give up, and cry out: "Woe is me! Woe is me!" She keeps at it; keeps plugging away, without showing any sign of giving up. Now, I understand that Daniel Defoe, a man, is giving Moll Flander's perspective, but he has endowed her character will resilience and durability.

On top of Moll's persistence is her intelligence. She knows how to change the tide, and ultimately give her the advantage. In her confidence she assists a woman into luring a suiter (who previously ignored her advances), by using the power of gossip (60-71). Genius. She meddles in the affairs of others, but in such a way to give her a strength that most women (in the book and during that time) could not dream of. She is indeed persistent.

Virginia on Moll

The introduction was actually one of my favorite parts of the reading this time and I think it was so because Virginia describes Moll Flanders with such accuracy. But I too have found and interesting and confounding contradiction in Moll. On the one hand I see the total victim she is situation and the society she lives in. I feel the objectification of women and see the totally unfortunate situation she is forced into. But on the other hand I see this incredibly strong vivacious women who is making her own way never mind the scruples of society. She is not then such a victim but as Virginia Woolf says is "a heroine who has us all in tow". Perhaps Moll Flanders is a tragedy...but isn't it something of a delight too? To watch this woman handle situations and take assertiveness in her life is refreshing and interesting.

Moll Flanders, First Set of Prompts

1. In her introduction to our edition of Moll Flanders, Virginia Woolf, who knew something about female protagonists, argues that Defoe is breaking new ground with the character of Moll, whom he "places in circumstances where [her] particular hardships are displayed in such a way as to elicit our sympathy" (xvi). In this way, Woolf paints the novel as a kind of early feminist text because it absorbs us in the world of a woman who is making it on her own, and sometimes doing so defiantly. And yet, when we flip the page, we find that Defoe, in his Preface, goes to great lengths to cast Moll Flanders as a morality story, a cautionary tale, one that is meant to warn the reader about vice. What do you make of this seeming contradiction? Use examples.

2. Defoe's Preface creates a narrative framework for the novel. What, if anything, does that framework have in common with other works we have read this semester? Use specific examples.

3. After reading the first 100 pages of the novel, choose one adjective to describe your impression of Moll, and then elaborate using at least one example from the first 100 pages.

Thanks. See you Tuesday.

Ossaury, Peru

This is the post card that I bought after touring the building and seeing the Ossuary well, I didn't qutie get why they decorated it like this but it's a very big well. If you look in the bottom right corner of the post card you can see the hallway that I was talking about where it's a row of graves, they are filled with just bones of all different shapes and sizes and it's a very long hallway.

This is a close up of the middle of the well above, it's really quite large and as you can see there is no bottom of the well in the picture it's actually more bones below. In the bottom right of the postcard you can see the building itself, it's very beautiful inside the building with wood floors and painted ceilings, it's only not pretty when you go into the catacombs below the building.

Defoe is De man

I have to say that I really enjoyed this reading. First of all, I loved Defoe's writing style. He is very detail oriented, but more impressive than his attention to detail is how he can still make the story interesting. I think Defoe pulls this combo off by adding in direct quotes from the people he was talking to and by adding emotion into the story. For example, at the end of the last story about the devout waterman Defoe admits to being so moved by the happenings that he cried. Second of all, Defoe really paints an amazing picture of a plague stricken town. The description of houses and houses full of dead bodies and wagons crashing to reveal mounds of dead bodies really left an impression on me-it's not so funny once you get the Monty Python imagery out of your head! All this carnage really made me wonder if people thought this was the end of the world. It seems that everybody is screaming that it is the end of days right now, but I wonder if every generation has thought the same way. I know I would have thought the end of the world was upon us if I lived during the plague.
Just a side note: Defoe's writing really reminded me of Poe. I'm not sure if it is just because they were writing around the same time period or what, but Poe has wonderful attention to detail and he added that fear and emotion in his work in order to scare people.

Attention to detail

I made the mistake of reading the plague prompt while eating my lunch. Let me tell you, that was not a good combination.

Defoe's journalistic tendencies are evidenced throughout his writing but paricularly in his attention to detail that might be considered trivial. It wasn't enough that he informs us of the father leaving money for his family. Defoe goes even further and tells you how much money, where it came from, and how often it is left. Similarly, when he learns of the father's work as a Ferryman has asks after the customers that make use of his services, where they are located and what sort of tasks he preforms for them.
His writing doesn't strike me as being boring in any way. The details may be trivial but they help create this picture that makes me feel like I'm in the moment with him. If I was sitting by watching the scene unfold I hope that I would notice similar details that lend credibility and understanding to the situation.
Defoe is adept at presenting a completely foreign situation in a way that might be understood with very little effort.

What I liked about Defoe's way of writing, is that it gives the story much more depth and feeling. The details may just be historical facts about body counts, and the way of life during the plague, but those details suck you in, and really make you sympathize with the characters, whether or not they themselves are factual. It's the same way a film about WWI, or something like that, would work. If we know that what are they are showing on the screen is historically accurate, the movie has much more impact on us. Because, even if the characters themselves are made up, you know that they could have existed and those experiences did happen to a lot of real people.

The line between Fact and Fiction: in Defoe's "The Journal of the Plague Year"

Reading, "The Journal of the Plague Year" reminds nothing slight of a grotesque man's journey in 1665 London. Without someone like Defoe, as readers one couldn't experience moments in history like "The Plague" without the journalistic detail of his benevolent nature to humanity. The detail that struck me the most was when he describes the buriers putting the dead bodies into the pit and cover them with lime to help the bodies decompose quicker. Unless he did research, there is not a chance Defoe would have known that sort of detail without looking into the history behind the Plague in London in 1665. In his encounter with the Waterman, also proved to be significant to his "Journalistic" research as well. On page 2308 he says, "I turned a little away from the man, while these thoughts engaged me, for indeed, I could no more refrain from tears then he." Here is another great example of the way Defoe draws in his readers; the emotional effect of his experience with a man he hardly knew, but on an emotional level the two men were connected by this tragedy. Like Brad said, Defoe's "Journalistic" approach was like he was interviewing this man for an article. Both men took something from their experiences together as Defoe blurs the lines between fact and fiction, making it unclear whether the text is a novel or an actual historical event. Either way, he was creative and inventive with his writing.

I felt like I was there and that if I would have actually been there I would have noticed and experienced the same emotions and feelings of Defoe. The details that were provided didn’t steer my eyes away to the story line but brought me in closer. The dimensions of the pit, description of the poor man, the imagery of the pit, the madness induced suicides; all the detail made the story more enthralling. The interview that Defoe had with the poor man made me think of a newscaster interviewing a citizen after a disaster.
That “the journal of a plague year” was so short aided in that it was not a cumbersome amount of detail. In books by Tom Clancy detail becomes too much and I can skip 4 pages and just be getting out of the description of the SKS, and there are well over 300 pages of this. Defoe’s use of detail was perfect, giving me a clear view of the emotions and even relationships that existed between affected households and unaffected spouses. I could imagine myself in any situation that was presented in the story and that to me is the right amount of detail without being weighed down.

Daniel Defoe has a style of writing that clearly reveals a "journalistic" background, yet what I appreciated most, was that it read like a story. That may sound overly-simplified, however, it is no simple task to write about a historical event without either focusing on the story itself, or the minutiae. Defoe managed both.
The details, and there were many, served to fill cruriousity gaps for the reader... at least they did for me. We are assuming that the narrator was a real person who was actually there, and in order for Defoe to convince us of that, he needed to include details that only someone who had really lived through the Plague would have known. The narrator explains in great detail exactly how many bodies could fit in a "40 foot in length, and about 15 or 16 foot broad" hole. He includes dates, names, dimensions, locations, clothing, numbers, the duties of the town (those who weren't boarded up), - all journalistic details but carried along with the narrator's feelings, sights, sounds, relationships (however brief).

Humanity in the Plague

There are some really interesting things that happen in “A Journal of the Plague Year” as a result of Defoe’s journalistic tone. First, I think that his writing style, and the fact that he has clearly done research including personally seeking out certain events, gives Defoe a certain sense of authority. Not once do you question the things that he is reporting on. Secondly, Defoe’s attention to detail makes the piece both factual and engrossing. When he describes the horrors of the burial pit you get a real sense of the dread and hopeless resignation that can be felt there. Coming from someone that really has no frame of reference for such a catastrophe, it seems as though you really get at least a somewhat personal understanding of what it would have been like to have been there.

I think that one of the most successful aspects of “A Journal of the Plague Year” is the way that Defoe makes the story so personal and focuses on the humanity. Knowing Defoe’s penchant for detail and reporting, I expected the piece to be a lot of straight up facts. I was surprised at the humanity that Defoe was able to bring to the sections about the dead bodies and in particular to the closing section that relates his encounter with the poor man walking on the bank. As a reader, you do not simply get the man’s tale but also the complicated thoughts of the reporter as he processes it. I love the sentence where Defoe writes, “I turned a little way from the man, while these thoughts engaged me, for indeed, I could no more refrain from tears than he.” It is not often that you see reporting these days where the author gets so emotionally invested in the piece and it’s almost hard to avoid doing the same as a reader. Overall, I think that Defoe’s writing employs techniques that do an incredible job of placing the reader in the historical event.

The First HazMat Suit: The Plague Doctor

One of the creepiest things about the plague, at least to me, is the thought of "plague doctors" walking around looking like this. "Plague doctor" is the name for those whose job it was to visit the sick and confirm that they had the plague. These were volunteers, not "real" doctors; physicians would not treat plague sufferers because they had no way of curing them; indeed, they were often some of the first to flee (no pun intended). Can you imagine this person visiting you? Creepy.

If you did, indeed, have the plague, you were boarded up in your house. If you didn't have the plague but lived with someone that did, you were also boarded up in your house. And if you didn't have the plague, you often boarded yourself up in your house (or on your boat, as you see in Defoe, or in the woods, where many people fled) so you wouldn't have to come into contact with those that did. People didn't know how the plague was being spread, which is one of the reasons it spread so well. A few notes about the plague doctor's gear:

The coat was usually leather, or heavy fabric. It was usually waxed so that bodily fluids--blood, phlegm, the pus from burst buboes--would run off of it. The beak was stuffed with herbs and perfume to kill the smell of the abovementioned fluids, decaying flesh, human waste...you get the idea. The perfume was also meant to prevent infection (it was thought that the disease traveled in miasmas, or pockets of infected air, and that these could be overpowered by other odors). The walking stick was for touching/moving patients and for pointing out directions to people. Leather breeches were worn to protect the groin. Buboes were first manifest in the lymph nodes, the armpits and the groin in particular, so these were specifically guarded. The creepy uniform worked, but only to the extent that it kept fleas off. In truth, plague doctors probably did much to spread the plague since they carried the fleas with them.

Why did they do it? Money. Lots of it. And maybe to wear a cool mask.

Prompt:

For Tuesday, talk about the journalistic nature of Defoe's writing. What parts of the writing reveal an author who was used to doing research and who cared about attention to detail? How does minutiae affect the way the writing comes across, the impact of the story itself?

The Soul Of A Cemetary

I love cemeteries. No seriously I do. In my home town we have a beautiful cemetery that I absolutely love. People find them creepy, scary, or gross; I find them beautiful and peaceful and spiritual. They are places to be quiet, to be sad, to mourn, to feel. I love Gray's poem "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard" because I think it correctly captures the loneliness and silence that exists in cemeteries. It is undeniably a sad poem. It speaks of lives lost too soon and as every life has more to live perhaps every death is too soon. One of my favorite stanzas is "Perhaps in this neglected spot is laid-Some heart once pregnant with celestial fire-Hands that the rod of empire might have swayed-Or walk to ecstasy in living lyre". This is beautiful but it focuses on death in a way i think we sometimes do not-death as the absence of life, of being able to live. That sounds obvious but when we look at graves, I think we sometimes fail to realize that the person whose death is marked there was once a living, breathing being with opinions and feelings and passions. We forget to think-who were they and what would they have been? Another of my favorite stanzas is at the end "On some fond breast the parting soul relies-Some pious drops the closing eye requires; Ev'n from the tomb the voice of nature cries-Ev'n in our ashes live their wonted fires". For some reason this stanza took spoke to me of the soul of the cemetary. Sometimes when death happens, we move on too quickly. We live in a culture that has forgotten how to grieve. For some reason we feel that the best thing is to move forward, move away, leave the dead behind. That's the wonderful thing about cemetary's. It is a place where we can go to be reminded of the souls lost. Not that life should be consumed with grief but cemetaries or churchyard's provide a place for us to mourn the losses. A sanctuary of sorrow, if you will. I think that was one of Gray's ideas when writing this poem.

Did curiosity really kill the cat?

Gray has the ability to take a mundane occurrence and portray it as an event. I'm sure that small rodents and felines alike drown every day and no one writes a poem about it. Gray writes of the cat's existence and ultimate demise in words so touching and enlightened that he could be writing about a human. I appreciate that he can see the importance of small events and the beauty of the world as experienced by something so small as a cat.

I feel that much of the what we've been reading has been focused on the viewer or rather on differing views/perspectives. I enjoy this type of writing more because it usually helps me to think about something in a way I normally wouldn't or to see beauty in something that I would generally dismiss.

I especially love how how Gray takes ordinary pieces of life, like the vase, the lake, the gold fish, and gives them poetic beauty through his perspective. He lifts them to a higher plane by viewing them as something more than ordinary.

Thoughts on Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard

When poems discuss death or memories faded of those who've passed, I think therein comes a necessary requirement to reverence and reminisce instead of scorn and mock; once death occurs, there is a NO CROSSING zone in terms of belittling beyond the grave. I found that Thomas Gray has subtly given such a point of respect for the dead. His poem Elegy paints the imagery of not only a graveyard scene, but the emotions that are forever tied to funereal moments of mourning loved ones. Gray shows with words concise and powerful that the distinct sounds, many times ignored, become significant on the day of a loved one passing: "curfew tolls the knell of parting day ... Save where the beetle wheels his droning flight ... The moping owl does to the moon complain" (1, 7, 10). He basically tells of the movement of a beetle (clicking of its wings), the ring of a bell, the hoot of an owl, sounds that may be common place, yet are reminders of a day of tragedy. Those sounds memorialize and, as Gray is doing, give eulogy to the dead. My favorite lines:

For them no more the blazing hearth shall burn,
Or busy housewife ply her evening care:
No children run to lisp their sire's return,
Or climb his knees the envied kiss to share.

These lines, although obvious in content--the dead will no longer be able to do those things they did in life--are beautiful reminders of the little things that make us human. The fire burning in the fireplace, the nightly tucking-in of the children, the children's excited welcome when father, mother, grandpa, or grandma arrive, and even the intimate and awkward first kiss.

Gray gives us a lot to think about, my head is still kind of sorting things out, but I'm really captivated by Death of a Favorite Cat. Like Rape of the Lock it got me thinking about how the things we keep around us represent a part of us. Gray also seems to have a sense of fate about his work, that is comforting and condemning at the same time.

"Celestial Fire"

Just a few weeks ago, my dear friend lost her infant 4 weeks before her due date. As she held that lifeless child in her arms I can only imagine the pain she felt as she imagined all the dreams she had made for that little girl, that would never come to be. As I read this poem, I had the reoccurring thought that although baby Harper never lived a mortal life, she will play an important part in her parent's lives forever.

Death seems to be a cruel part of the life cycle, but it is something that each of us will approach as we age. But the most heart-wrenching idea of losing a child before they have had the opportunity to grow, develop and better yet, before the parents pass away, seems cruel. But I appreciate the lines in this poem that give strength to those mothers who might have been "pregnant with celestial fire." When I read those words, I was so focused on the word: celestial. With my personal religious beliefs and upbringing, I believe those children who don't have a chance to impact the world physically will live in the celestial realm. But in the mean time, they are making a difference due to the impact they made on those who love them.

My sweet friend, although she is struggling as her "official" due date approaches a week from today, I know she is making an impact in other peoples lives. Because of baby Harper, I have appreciated each and every moment with my son. I take the time to color with him, dance to the music and read lots of books. Death affects us - it can bring new LIFE!

The Path Toward Imminent Death

The first time I read through this poem, I was basically lost half way through. After reading it a couple more times, I suddenly was able to take a great deal from it and realized how beautiful it really is.

The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour.
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.

As Daniel mentioned, this poem speaks to all. It contains the age old theme that death is inevitable and all will eventually experience it. This includes those who were poor and worked their entire lives just to get by, and opposite, those who had power, wealth, and beauty instead. All paths lead to an impending death. I think one of the things Gray ponders in this piece is the idea that if nothing else in this life, as far as he has observed, makes people equal to one another, then death does it. He also beautifully contemplates and describes the lives of the less fortunate, observing that "Chill Penury repressed their noble rage, And froze the genial current of the soul." Although they were people with passions, spirit, and life, they had to live within the confines of poverty until the day they were silenced for good.

The paths of glory lead but to the grave.

Can storied urn or animated bust

Back to its mansion call the fleeting breath?

Can Honour's voice provoke the silent dust,

Or Flatt'ry soothe the dull cold ear of Death? 41-44

Death as the Great Equalizer. Even the great of the earth eventually will become like all the rest when they die, a box full of bones. The poor and humble of the earth, that are buried in the church graveyard, are now on the same level as those who led lives of fame and riches. As to the flesh all become equal in death. Can a man’s honors and flattering words prolong the inevitable? Can the stories on his urn bring his soul back to his body or make death any less final? They cannot prolong death but these things can make someone’s story always live on. Maximus once said, "Brothers, what we do in life...echoes in eternity."

I had a nice post all planned out, but then I read Launi's comments, and decided my response sucked in comparison. I really appreciated her post, and I feel I got the same out of Gray's poem. I love walking through cemeteries myself, and I am always filled with intense curiosity of who the people underneath the headstones are. What were their good qualities, did they reach their full potential? In the cemetery by my home, there are these really nice headstones, they're huge and well kept and always have flowers and decorations by them on Memorial Day. All these headstones have the same last name on them. I know the family, they practically own the town I live in, and they are very wealthy. I've always felt a little resentment towards those giant headstones. It's like they're showing off a little. I tend to feel more respect towards the graves that are old, poor, and sometimes unmarked. The people in those graves were just as smart, had just as much potential as the people with the showy headstones, but for one reason or another, they're not as noticed. Anyway, I can't seem to muster the strength to put all this eloquently, so I'll just say that I loved the poem, and I thought Gray did a wonderful job paying tribute to all of those people who don't get the recognition that they might deserve.

Elegy really made me think about the dead and what it means to be dead. "The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed." This is such an eerie thought. These lines really portray what it is to be dead. When I read this I imagined someone who still looks alive but doesn't respond to anything. I think it will really make me think about the actual bodies in the ground next time I go to a cemetery.

Lines 43 and 44 also had an effect on me. "Can Honor's voice provoke the silent dust, Or Flatt'ry soothe the dull cold ear of Death?" Even though the dead can't physically hear anymore, this makes me think of what is left of the dead; what might still be lingering behind or around their bodies. When we talk about those that have passed away, even though their ears are cold, do our words really have an effect on them? Can they hear what we say about them? I went to a funeral once that didn't complement the man that had passed away. A few people even said negative things about him. I couldn't help but feel bad for this man who may have never even heard some of the negative things that were being said at his funeral. I was hoping he wasn't hearing the different things being said. I personally think the dead can hear things that are said about them. I really enjoyed this poem. I think having the pictures to look at before reading helped me to really visualize the poem.

Elegy

When I first read Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard I decided to try and mark with a dash my favorite stanzas to help me decide what to write about. I pretty much ended up with most of the stanzas marked. However, I am going to force myself to focus on two in particular.

I love in the ninth stanza when Gray discusses “boasts of heraldry” and “the pomp of power” and various other things of worldly importance. In the end though, he implies that these things do not matter because “The paths of glory lead but to the grave”. That being said, I think that it is less about how little the things of the world matter but the fact that everyone, rich or poor, famous or unknown, will die. It is an obvious statement but powerful when you really reflect upon it. So many humanistic differences, natural and unnatural, exist in this world. We all have our own individual life experiences and outlooks. In reality, the one thing that connects us all, that we will all share in, is death. And how poetic is it that it’s the one aspect of “life” that we probably all know the least about. We all, regardless of our education, live in the same relative ignorance, despite whatever hopes and beliefs we may have, about this event that eventually awaits us all.

One of my other favorite stanzas has already been mentioned but I love stanza twelve when Gray mentions the potential that existed for the humble people buried in the country churchyard. One could have had a brilliant mind with amazing abilities. Another person, with the proper development, could have ruled as a King. They all, had potential for greatness. They were simply never able to realize it because of their circumstances. I think that the poem has many ideas and themes (which is probably why it is so fascinating) but I love the reminder that circumstance, education, and even luck have so much to do with where we end up. That everyone, if given the opportunity, has potential for greatness.

For me the poem is so incredibly humanistic and interesting as Gray goes from stanza to stanza elegizing the common man and discussing these fascinating ideas about humans’ similarities, differences, and potentials. There are so many different paths in life (and we don’t always have as much choice as I think we like to pretend we do) but often it is the path that determines the outcome and not the traveler. And in the end, the different paths all eventually lead to the same place.

How do we want to be remembered?

The basic concept of the poem is that no matter what we do in our lives and how valuable we think it is at the time, we can't escape death; death is the inevitable. Near the end, every one of us awaits the end, our "inevitable hour" and all our work, wealth, possessions and the beauty that our life gives to us all leads down the same path. In line 45, the speaker poses a question. "Perhaps in this neglected spot is laid/some heart once pregnant with celestial fire..." are the two lines that present the question, who lies in this grave? Are they important? Then he talks about how there are many great people who are born who are never recognized. The people who are being described, could have possibly been "pregnant with celestial fire," in other words they might have been special but they never were. Our legacy lives on through our children, friends, families. However the memory of the people who never got the chance to do great things will always live on forever in the memory of those who knew them. This poem is sad, and reminded me of one day, i will also reach that inevitable path; death. Reading this poem also reminds me of the fire we all have inside of us to be great, and not be buried with our regrets and dreams we never got the chance to take; or if we might of lacked the bravery to do so.

Great Poem!

These poets sure could pick a title. I know we're supposed to write about "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard" but I just can't help mention "Ode on the Death of a Favorite Cat, Drowned in a Tub of Gold Fishes" which may be the longest title ever! I laughed when I read the title, and again as I read the poem, but the last lines seemed strangely poignant. Gray takes this sad/humorous little story of a cat trying to get a fish (a goldfish no less) and somehow leaves the reader understanding the fragileness of life. "One false step is ne'er retrieved" obviously applies to more than just the cat slipping into the water. But I still marvel at the eloquent words that convey the moral "Not all that tempts your wandering eyes and heedless hearts, is lawful prize; Nor all that glisters, gold."
As for "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard", it too was full of little gems of thought for me. And again, the language is just... excuse the my lack of creative language... so poetic. Growing up, there was a cemetary about 5 minutes from my house and I know it can't compare to the age of anything in Europe, but it does have some pretty old graves and sits ontop of a grassy hill. It's very picturesque and serene and it's what I had in my mind as I read Gray's poem. I liked to look at the gravestones, which contained little more than, as Gray said "their name, their years, spelt by th' unlettered muse, The place of fame and elegy supply" with "uncouth rhymes and shapeless sculpture decked". I would wonder as Gray did, what kind of person was actually burried here. "Some mute inglorious Milton here may rest, Some Croomwell guiltless of his country's blood."

Unearthed Heroes

It was hard for me to pick just a few lines from this poem. For me each stanza has great meaning and addresses many different issues. Though each stanza says something unique and significant, I found myself searching for some kind of comfort or resolve in the next stanza , but I didn't find it, not even in the end. I think this true about death sometimes. Some people say "time heals all wounds" but like love, death can also be "An ever fixed mark" (Shakespeare)

Like Jake, I too found line 45 very touching "Perhaps in this neglected spot is laid/ Some heart once pregnant with celestial fire/ Hands that the rod of empire might have swayed/ Or waked to ecstasy the living lyre". I think why this stanza stood out to me was the photographs of the graveyards, especially the "parting day" picture. Besides there being a beautiful sunset the earth looks uneven; low in some places high in others. This gives me a feeling of unpredictability; even though we know death will come to us all, we are uncertain when and where it will strike. Therefore when death does come sometimes our lives are left misshapen and we are laid were we fall. In this poem we can still find beauty in what could have been and contemplate our own unexplored paths. On the other hand it also lets me know that just because these people were "unhonored" doesn't mean they didn't have experiences of a seasoned traveller, or didn't have has much passion as Shakespeare. They could have partaken in just as many heroic deeds as Achilles did. The only difference is that their deeds were not made known, it gives a new meaning to unsung heroes.

Perhaps in this neglected spot is laid
Some heart once pregnant with celestial fire
Hands that the rod of empire might have swayed
Or waked to ecstasy the living lyre.

This was my personal favourite stanza. To me, there's something profoundly beautiful in the lines "Perhaps in this neglected spot is laid / Some heart once pregnant with celestial fire". I love the amount of poetry and power Gray imbues in the simple contemplation of an anonymous person's life. He knows nothing of who is buried in that particular plot, and sees that no-one has visited it in many years, but he takes the time to write a beautiful passage remarking on the potential of that life (and, by proxy, any life that had passed and found it's mortal home in that cemetery). He reminds us that the anonymous spectre of which he writes was once full of burning life, that it may have had the potential to be a great ruler or musician. I particularly love that he doesn't simply put these things in terms of an everyday person's life; rather, he chooses to write them through a lens of magnitude and opulence, lending a certain majestic grandiosity to his speculation with colloquialisms such as "celestial fire" and "rod of empire". I found this elegy to be haunting, moving, and beautiful. Fantastic.

"Full many a Flower is born to blush unseen..."

I felt a cool connection to this poem. It almost feels "clumsy" writing a response to such an eloquent and deep piece of literature...

The picture of the sun going down over all those headstones stuck with me the whole time I read the poem. It really did set the tone and made it feel so much more real, not just black and white on a page.

I think what I got most out of this poem was the sense that anyone can be a great writer, thinker, artist, anything, if they want to. A lot of people overlook their own potential for doing great things because they feel like they are just “average” people, not famous or extremely successful or anything like that. A lot of people think they aren’t smart like the people they read about and study, but that’s not true. It doesn’t take fame to be smart. It doesn’t take writing a successful or popular book to be an intelligent person. Everyone has to start somewhere, and all anyone really needs to do in order to do great things is believe that they can, and have the desire for it. The whole “believe in yourself” phrase seems over-used and because of that, I think people overlook it’s actual blatant truth. That really is the first step. No one is going to take the initiative to do anything if they don’t first believe that it's possible. I loved it when he said “Full many a Flower is born to blush unseen,/ And waste its Sweetness on the desert Air./ Some Village-Hampden that with dauntless Breast/ The little Tyrant of his fields withstood;/ Some mute inglorious Milton here may rest…”. A flower in the desert may spend its entire life never seen or smelled by anyone, however, that doesn't make it any less beautiful than a flower in someones wedding bouquet (for example) that is admired by many. The only difference is other people's knowledge of its existence. In short, I think the only thing holding people back from being brilliant is the false notion that they will forever be a student studying other’s works and believing that they have to know everything in order to write anything worthwhile.

All in all, I got the impression that poetry can be found in so many places but we aren’t seeing it because we are only looking in books to find it. Life is short in the sense that no one can escape the inevitable death that awaits each of us, but it’s long in the sense that we are presented with infinite moments with which to create poetry, to reflect and to learn, and that is something that any human being, regardless of social standing, has the ability to achieve.

Still on a Pope Kick

Not to take away from Thomas Grey's Elegy, but I am still stuck on Pope's writings. I really respect and admire Pope for so craftily writing satire that had profound effects on society. It amazes me how brilliant some writers are and how much impact one person can have. I have been thinking about Pope's core ideology and how he believed that happiness was not determined by circumstance but by one's own perception of the circumstance, that is to say, one can control one's own happiness in any given situation. I really do agree with this. I have often heard that the mind is the most powerful organ in the human body. The mind can determine if we are sick, hungry, in pain,etc. Once again, I agree with this. However, my main concerns with this ideology are the effects this kind of thinking might have on the lower classes. People that don't have much are usually happy-from my own personal experiences. But, could these people be in a better economic situation if they were taught to fight for their rights? Can Pope's ideology be taken advantage of by those in power? As Marx once said, "religion is the opiate of the masses." I don't think Pope's ideas necessarily have anything to do with religion, but Marx's ideas still applies: the organizations in control subdue the masses into compliance for the benefit of those in power. This might not happen in every society, but I believe history has proven it to be the rule and not the exception. In sum, I whole-heartedly believe in a positive attitude, but I am cognitive of those that look to exploit the uneducated and impoverished.

Thomas Gray

Maybe this is obvious from reading Gray's Elegy, but since the middle ages, people had been buried in churchyards. You might find it interesting that these graves were commonly reused. (Think of the gravedigger scene in Hamlet, where Hamlet picks up the skull of Yorrick, unearthed as the grave is being re-dug for Ophelia.) Even today, when land in Britain is at a premium, laws are being passed about reusing, deepening, and otherwise altering old graves. These pictures are from churches in Wales where I have spent a good deal of time and where I have had very moving experiences similar to Gray's. (Now if I could only write a poem as good as his!) One of these churches was right down the hill from my home. The other (where I am standing) is the church where R. S. Thomas, one of the great religious poets of our time, worked as a priest until his retirement. These might give you an idea of the setting for Gray's poem. The last photo in particular seems appropriate for the "parting day" setting.

I started to write prompts, but they just seemed silly. "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard" is one of the great poems of British literature, and perhaps the most famous elegy in English. One of the reasons it is so moving is that it is not an elegy for a specific person. It is an elegy for the nameless, "unhonored dead," for what was not able to be accomplished, for the ambition and fires of youth that could not be realized, for all of the "what ifs" that haunt us all, and for the ghosts of those who have faded into history. It is also a brilliant piece of social commentary. So I am leaving the discussion wide open today. Choose a few lines from the poem that affect you and see where they lead. I'll be anxious to read your responses.

Needing that Lock

I think most people can say they have been a witness to the celebration that comes from blowing things out of proportion. In fact I think it runs rampant nowadays. I'm a big movie buff, but I can hardly stand TV anymore, it makes me nauseated the fanatic way people react to certain situations.I question, why is it that people feel the need to make something small into something epic? I think it comes from a deeper vault of feelings that lay hidden, but are raging to get out.


I had an experience like this when my family got into a huge blowout over animal nipple placement. My family has this website, and in it my brother-in-law writes a humorous column about his thoughts on life. One day he wrote this little script about how he went to the zoo and noticed that so called smart animals such as monkeys and elephants have higher nipple placement and that dumber animals such as cows and horses have lower nipple placement. Well, little did he know that right at this time my sister was struggling to keep her horse who was on the verge of death alive, and she was deeply offended at his comment, actually no one knew except one other sister who proceeded to get on the website and tell my brother that he was a brain damaged animal. I was then told to get on the website and make a comment. I got on and there were over fifty posts. It had gone from brain damage animals to Nazi control, then to politics and religion. My first impression was to make fun of everyone, then I decided to quietly log off. I realized there were deeper issues and past grievances going on. I know now there was another reason for my silence. I'm not Alexander Pope. How he was able to take a two family squabble and turn it into a social commentary, mocking the serious attitude people had over superficial things is amazing. He incorporated what pride and vanity can do by bringing in some of the most prideful characters in history. He then gathers in the reader by making everyone a player in the epic, letting us know how we contribute as a society to the spectacle of drama. How we are called upon to give our own opinions and take sides, as if we have the power to tip the scales to what is right and wrong " Ye Sylphs and Sylphids, to your chief give ear/ Fays, Fairies, Genii, Elves, and Demons hear!/ Ye know the spheres and various tasks assigned/ By laws eternal to th' aerial kind." In the end it is extremely humorous, but at the same time it gives us a look at the human condition and how we crave drama, adventure, and the need for a battle even if it's over something like a lock of hair.

The battle field

I thought it was really interesting that the card game was depicted as a battle. So, of course, my mind went immediately to Beowulf for a comparison. From lines 133-170 of The Rape of the Lock, I'm reminded of Beowulf's fight with Grendel, although I associate the Baron with Beowulf and Belinda with Grendel. Grendel arrives at Heorot and sees a buffet ready for him. He's focused on his own gluttony just as Belinda is focused on her card game. Neither character is expecting that anything terrible could happen to them. Line 153-4 "The meeting points the sacred hair dissever/From the fair head, forever and forever" reminds me of when Beowulf rips off Grendels arm. The first similarity I saw between the two was in the reaction of each character's loss. Line 155-7 "Then flashed the living lightning from her eyes,/And screams of horror rend th' affrighted skies."/Not louder shrieks to pitying Heav'n are cast" I can't find my book to give you lines from Beowulf, but I seem to remember something about shrieks from Grendel. Then the Baron begins to boast "The prize is mine! (line 162)" just as Beowulf hung Grendel's arm from the ceiling as a trophy. In line 170, he even says, "So long my honor, name, and praise shall live!", which is the general idea with everything that Beowulf does.

Background Information

I've posted a document to the documents site that is really helpful in answering some of your questions about historical context. It also includes a timeline. Check it out!

And to Heaven it Went, That Beautiful Soul of a Lock

The element that I took from the mock-epic of The Rape of the Lock was the ending where the lock is forever thought to be immortalized in the stars as it would be more beautiful and envied there as it would ever be on earth. I thought that was hilarious and as comparing it to some other epic I am familiar with is the lost epic of Heracles, by Peisander (600 BC) - yes it is lost but the ending is still around as it is the constellation of Hercules, the Kneeling Man (he is holding the hydra and a club, he's about to beat them with it). I thought that was great because Heracles was immortalized in the stars because of his twelve arduous Labours and the hardships he endured as assuared by the 9 goddesses muse or Zeus (it's unclear who put him up there to be remembered forever). But the Lock was sent up to the skies "but trust the Muse-she saw it upward rise...A sudden star, it shot through liquid air, And drew behind a radiant trial of hair" (Canto 5 lines 123-128) basically to soothe the grief (as compared to when Romulus died and Proculus told everyone he went to heaven to soothe the grief). I loved that part the best, it was like the world's all over because this lock was taken and then lost but maybe just maybe it's up in the heavens looking down at us right now! How better off we are by avoiding the apocalypse of great sadness by not having the World totally void of this The Great Lock!

The Rape of the Lock

For Tuesday, find elements in The Rape of the Lock that seem to mock (comically make use of) other epics with which you are familiar. These might include Paradise Lost, Inferno, The Iliad, The Odyssey etc. You might also write about modern and contemporary mock-heroic epics that bear similarities to Pope's work. Quite simply, the poem doesn't "work" unless you make such comparisons, so have fun with it. All silliness is welcome since the poem is, well, pretty silly.

Hope

Essay 3 from Pope's An Essay on Man really stood out to me. I see a connection here with the Carpe Diem ideas that we spoke about earlier in the semester. Pope offers the idea that perhaps we wouldn't live our life to its fullest if we knew of things beyond our "present state"(line 78). I don't think he's implying that we should only live in the moment but he is simply offering that the knowledge of certain things might change our state for the worse.

Perhaps I only see it because I'm looking for it, but there is a naturalist connection between God, Man and life. Because we can't know what life will bring or what fruits Death will offer, it seems best not to dwell on them but to continue living with the hope that blessings are to come. If nothing else, death will be a learning experience for us just as is life.

Perhaps the most moving lines are 95-96:
"Hope springs eternal in the human breast:
Man never is, but always to be blessed"

I admire the thinking of Pope's time where science is being explored and accepted but God is not forgotten, rather God is being found in the depths of science. Pope is able to refer to the universe and and the planets but still put forth that God is over all.

The Sound Must Seem an Echo to the Sense

Alexander Pope not only claims the importance but also demenstrates thoroughly the idea that "the sound must seem an echo to the sense." He illistrates well in his own works just how significantly the forms and devices used can affect the overall presentation of the piece. There are numerous examples, his line on 367, "And the smooth stream in smoother numbers flows" creates further enhancement than simply stating that the stream moves smoothly. Another example of his technique is lines 377-379 when he writes: "Now burns with glory, and then melts with love; Now his fierce eyes with sparkling fury glow, Now signs steal out, and tears begin to flow." The repetition of the word "now" adds emphasis and calls attention to the three lines and his descriptive word choice creates intense imagery for the reader such as "burns" "melts" and "sparkling".